Allardyce and the culture change at football clubs

I have been meaning to blog about the Sam Allardyce affair for a little while and it’s good to finally share my thoughts.  Football today at the top level is descending into a sham with un-realistic expectations being shared all the way through the league.  For those who demand instant results from whichever club they support, here is the thing; it’s impossible for every club to win every game as in order for that to happen, someone has to lose, yet this burden sit on the shoulders of every Premier League manager.  But the Wenger and Ferguson revolutions did not happen over night, they take years of management, of making a culture shift.

In a day job role, I’ve had meetings with the marketing people from some of the top clubs up and down the country and the ‘other world’ some of these people are living in amazes me.  And that kind of culture will pervade right through the club and it takes years to make a shift towards a different world, which is what the Premier league has become since its inception.

Sam Allardyce was given 8 months to make that shift at Newcastle, a club that has not won a trophy for decades.  Whatever your views on Sam as a manager, and personally I think he is an ‘okay’ manager who could have made an average team like Newcastle perform, he did have a long term strategy and plan which he had no real chance to implement.  Such a plan requires people to change the way they think and as creatures of habit that does not occur overnight.  Look at us an example.

How many games away was Curbs from the sack last season?  6-0 at Reading, 4-0 at Charlton, 3-0 at Sh*ff Utd, had the miracles at Ewood Park and the Emirates not occurred, I think we would more than likely be looking at a new manager.  But Eggy rode it out with Curbs, gave him time to get his cultural changes across.  We can now slowly see that in our football.  It needs ironing out, but Curbs is teaching the lads how to grind out a result where before we would not have got one.  The free flowing football, which we see glimpses of, can wait until we’re knocking good results out week after week. 

I don’t believe for a minute that if Newcastle were grinding out results in a boring fashion but were top of the league, that the Toon Army would be complaining.  Nor if the football was right but the results were not coming that they would be happy.   Allardyce was trying to bring in his cultural shift, which even if it meant not beating everyone all the time, would have resulted in some good results some of the time, enough to keep an average club like Newcastle in its position.  He was simply not given enough time to implement this.

And this is the burden that sits with every club that gets a new manager, not only has he got to change the way the players play, he has to change the way the people around him work too.  From the tea lady to the members of the board, the old has to be cast out and the new has to be brought in.  Most successful companies don’t make profit for 2 or 3 years before becoming what they are.  It’s about time football chairman started to treat their clubs like businesses and less like Fantasy Football games.  Fortunately for us, the Icemen appear to know that, and the cultural change at Upton Park is something we can be excited about, all it needs is time….

Update: Thank you for your comments so far and welcome to the Newcastle supporters who have dropped by.  Just to point out that I have nothing against your team, even though the best memory I have of St James's Park is the line of supporters next to the away fans who weren't watching the game but were simply there to tell us what they were going to do to us afterwards, but I digress.

On the Glenn Roeder point, Roeder has no pedigree whatsoever in managing a Premier League team, I am not saying you could pick anyone to deliver a strategy and cultural change, but that there are people capable of it and Allardyce proved that at Bolton.  Roeder is simply not up to the job and would not be able to deliver over a 10 year period, let alone a 10 week one.

Ourman - I think you provide a good dissection of your team and would not doubt you know the ins and outs of yours better than I do, but football is about opinions.  Would you then say in all-confidence that under a different manager, Owen would be knocking them in for fun, Smith would be revelling in a settled role and Joey Barton would keep out of the wrong kind of headlines?  All in the space of 8 months?  If I draw an analogy with a club I do know about, Curbs brought in Quashie, Davenport and Boa-Morte in the transfer deadline, none of whom contributed anything significant to our survival and only one of which is offering up anything this season.  Upson looked like the most over-paid crock last season but has been rock solid for us this time round.  It took time for Curbs to get to know the players around him, show them how he wanted to play and now they are doing it is very slowly working, but it was not without its mishaps...

Further update:  Ourman, I think you might have missed my point.  I think Smith is an okay player and Quashie is not Premiership material, at best a useful squad member.  But all managers, ours and Fergie included make mistakes.  Massimo Taibi and Eric Djemba-Djemba are a couple of examples for you.  But just because a manager has made these errors, does not make him a 'bad' manager.  Bad managers are those who simply don't achieve, like Roder.  As I say, I think Allardyce is an 'okay' manager who could have over time put Newcastle in a good position.  But we'll never know and perhaps we shall just agree to disagree.

I see you now have Kevin Keegan, be interested to see what you think of that?  Has he been working in the Premiership of late?  I can't be horrible to the guy, as he was one of the more honest and forthright managers, but I'm not sure he is the right person to manage the likes of Viduka, Owen and Barton, guess time will tell...

Comments

[bariscooter]

Thank you. I'm a Newcastle fan and you've just said what many of us have been saying since the sacking. We expect too much at Newcastle and we're just an average team, in reality Keegan ruined Newcastle because we expect that every game. We should have given sam time but Newcastle will always do what we do best........ sack managers!

[David Cresswell]

Think you've missed ths point somewhat!

Whilst I wouldn't disagree that 8 months is ludicrously short time to expect a turnaround, you must remember that Sam was employed by the old regime not the new one. He was given a chance to prove what he was about, but they clearly didn't like what they saw (and most toon fans would agree).

Your comment "would have resulted in some good results some of the time, enough to keep an average club like Newcastle in its position. He was simply not given enough time to implement this." pretty much says it all.

Would you be happy if this was your teams goal? As someone who has followed NUFC for 30+ years, I can say that whilst I would be happy 'for a while' with the poor performances/high position scenario, it would very quickly tire. Ask anyone who witnessed the Keegan era whether they would have traded that infamous 2nd place slide for 1st with a Big Sam style of play and I don't think you would get many takers.

[ourman]

I am really tired of fans of others clubs telling me about my club.

It wasn't about not giving him time. Your employer expects you to take a while to settle in to your job. You won't get fired anywhere for not coming up with result immediately.

What you might get fired for is being an absolute arse and that is what Sam proved to be.

To use the example of a salesman - you might not be expected to bring in new clients straight away but if you p1ss off all the existing clients then you won't last long.

Sam proved straight off he couldn't spot a player. His media pronouncements (via Nuts Magazine rather than the BBC)suggested that at best he was trying to build a more expensive version of Bolton rather than challenge for a top four place.

He fell out with Emre who is our most creative footballer. Alan Smith, who we incredibly paid £6m for, has played in six different positions and has been awful in everyone of them. So far he had offered not one goal nor one assist. Passes completed are few and far between.

Six million was spent on Enrique who hardly got a game - with Sam instead playing out best winger in the left back spot. Other wingers were normally employed on their wrong side (if Smith hadn't taken their place).

Owen is overweight and out of sorts and has quite obviously given up. The wonderful Martins has been stripped of all confidence after Redknapp mucked him around, dropped him and wondered aloud why he didn't just leave.

Shola, okay no world beater, but a gangly striker surely is in the Allardyce mould, has dissappeared and doesn't even make the subs bench.

Of Allardyce's other purchases - at the back Rozenhal and Cacapa make Boumsong and Bramble look like world beaters. Faye and Beye are remarkably ok.

Viduka, a couple of predatory goals aside, has scaled down is already limited work rate. Six million pound man Joey Barton is, as I am sure you know, somewhat preoccupied.

Oh and Steven Taylor is latterly back in the side - dropped initially because he wasn't good enough according to Sam - he's now our best defender - or at least compared to the dross that was bought in to replace him.

Oh and this appliance of science stuff - well we were told the new man would stop all the injuries our players suffer - they remained just as bad if not worse.

Duff complained he been told not to east pasta - something apparently revolutionary for athletes because no one else had ever suggested it.

As for all that ProZone stuff - if he really believed in it so much how come he didn't spot that Smith hasn't completed a pass since arriving? How come Smith has made more fouls than succesful tackles but still plays?

Not one single player has thrived under Sam. Not one.

But obviously, from your view point in east London you know best.

Enjoy the wonderous Nolberton Solano. Another player who Sam got rid of. He was replaced with the truly awful Geremi (who Mourinhio recently admitted was finished and ran like a 40-year-old).

Oh and Sam made the truly awful Geremi captain - an honor he has since switched to the even worse Alan Smith.

Enough said.

But yeah, you're right all he needed was more time.

[felaymgutti]

i totally agree, slowly but surely we are getting there - our passing of the ball has improved ten fold since curbs has come in. Your also right about patience. i read a lot of the west ham boards and people are expecting a top 6 finish next season and Curbs job rides on it - its not going to happen! we need to establish ourselves at around the 7-10 mark for a few seasons then we will slowly but surely rise up the table into the battle for the european spots. If Curbs can keep us in the top half of the premier league in the next seasons he has done a good job in my book.

[shearerclass]

ourman, couldn't agree more, well said. There's too many "experts" ex footy players, journo's etc who profess to know all about our club but most of them have never been to St. James's this season to witness the clueless team selection/formation that SA put upon us! Would any other supporter be happy when their team didn't have a single effort on goal in 7 - YES 7 games!? think not...

[John]

My boss is a happy hammer and I've just spoken to him about your assertion of the relative happiness of the NUFC fans.

All football fans would be happy if they were top of the league (except the odd brazilian and a russian or two), regardless of the standard of play. Yes, if you can see your team is trying to play football but losing the odd game, you would still be happy.

But to watch your team playing appallingly and underperforming is just not good enough.

Under Big Sam, we played an ultra-defensive game but still conceded goals. We played a defensive midfield trio at home to Derby FFS.

Think of a square divided into quadrants. One half is "Playing good football" and one half is "Winning". The ultimate quadrant would be playing well and winning. You would be forgiven for being in the two next best quadrants (either playing well but unsuccessfully or playing appallingly but winning), but to play badly and lose is the booby prize and not even my happy hammer boss would put up with that.

[Biffo the Bear (East London)]

Good comment from 'ourman'
nice to hear it from the horses mouth with proper details as to what went on. The most popular view is that Mr Allardyce wasn't given enough time. When you read stuff like ourman's post it makes you realise that with more time he would have done more damage.

He developed his ideas at Bolton when they were an up and coming small team from the lower leagues and every season had to do loan deals and swaps and whatever to freshen up up to six players in his squad. All he needed to do was stay in the league, all the fans were happy and he could crack on about his tactics coming from the planet Zanussi and how thick all the other managers are.

I must admit, I was surprised when he was appointed and also surprised when he was sacked, but having read the post from ourman, I understand it a bit better now. Fanx M8

I just can't imagine who will be the next man to sit in that particularly hot seat though? I reckon it'd have to be someone who either, knows all about the place, like Shearer (+ someone?) or nothing at all like Deschamps. One things for sure though, got to be a real football man proper passing game etc.

Anyway good luck to Newcastle

[ourman]

Biffa,

The Shearer for Newcastle bandwagon is another media myth. There have been reports of Sky cohersing groups of youngsters into shouting his name for the TV crews and it has been relayed later as proof of Geordies demanding big Al back.

Of a straw poll amongst mates (not quite the unwashed the media paints us as) there is some support for Keegan back - but it is far from a majority. But I don't know any one championing Shearer.

That said, if he did get on the job I'd let out a sigh of resignation, break into a grin, throw on my shirt and go out and shout myself hoarse. He'd get the fans going which might be half the battle.

Personally I'd go for someone like Hughes or Moyes. Uninspired maybe but the right mix of attacking football with a little pragmatism.

Oh and does the person who wrote the article above think we sacked Glen Roeder too soon too?

And if not, then perhaps the problem is not sacking managers too soon - it's appointing the wrong ones.

[shearerclass]

ourman, ever thought about being a sports writer? You seem to have more sense than the current ones! Regarding who to appoint, since his first choice-who i thought was a slightly better version of SA, lots of similiarities- turned him down, i feel he has no choice now but to go for Shearer. i understand he is inexperianced but he has great knowledge of the game, huge respect from his peers and knows more than most about this club, city and supporters. Also, as is often mentioned, his presence hangs all over anyone crazy enough to take this great job. I would be v. happy if he was appointed aslong as he had someone alongside him.

Biffa, good to see that some people can see the trees through the forest.

[ourman]

Your added bit doesn't make sense. Are you asking whether another manager might make Smith better given time?

I doubt it.

But put it this way - Smith made his debut in 1998 - it is now 2008. In ten years in the league he has scored 45 goals. Or to put it another way 4.5 goals a year.

Now I don't really follow your point but a bad player is a bad player is a bad player. Arsene Wenger could coach me for a week solidly from sun down to sunset and I'd still be crap.

Let's face it Alex Ferguson couldn't turn Smith into a good player.

Likewise a bad manager is a bad manager etc. Giving him time doesn't make him better.

It was Sam who bought Smith so he deserves criticism for buying him. He deserves more criticism for being unable to get any kind of performance out of him. He deserves massive criticism for playing him out of position. He deserves humungous criticism for not dropping him. Etc Etc.

Time is not always the be all and end all. Wenger has had a decade at the Arse because he is good. He is not good because he had time.

People go on about it taking Ferguson years to win the league at Man U but he won silverware in the meantime. What's more he didn't buy Claudio bleeding Cacapa or naffing Geremi.

As for Joey Barton and whether he'd do better under another manager - it might have escaped your attention but he's headed for jail. We bought a player for £6m who had bail conditions and a record of behaviour that meant, on the balance of probabilities, that we would spend time in prison.

Stupid. Stupid. Stupid.

Still though, I have a feeling I won't be able to change your mind on this one. You have already labelled us ungrateful and Sam a managerial genius.

I am glad that you are enjoying the footballing genius that is Nigel Quashie. Obviously happy days are here again at West Ham. I hope you manage to hang on to him when Real Madrid come a calling.

[ourman]

Feck it - we got Keegan back. Probably ultimately futile but a lot of fun along the way.

[ourman]

Can't you answer in the comments section? It's like having a conversation with someone who answers you with a megaphone.

Keegan took us to the Champions league and on the last game of the season we could have won the league.

All that on a lesser budget than Sounness blew.

When was the last time West Ham enjoyed that kind of success.

Do I think it is sensible? No. But it's about entertainment, remember?

Bring it on. I'll leave you to your ill informed opinions.

For the record - one area that Keegan was unsurpassed at was spotting players and motivating them.

Hopefully he won't be bidding for Quashie.

[Simon]

Okay, will address you here now. Well, two seasons ago we got into Europe and were unlucky to lose a Cup Final, but I don't want to get into a my team is better than yours argument, think we will be here all day.

Look, let's see what he can do, he's a motivator for sure but everyone was agreed he was not a master tactician. You will be entertained in the short term, although Ginola and Asprilla were one off characters, as indeed was Shearer at his peak. Owen is far too injury prone to be comparable. But let's say Keegan does not light things up, you lose a few matches, would you agree he should get more than half a season to implement his philosophy, which is afer all what my original post was about!

[ourman]

And my point was this - sometimes time isn't relavant. Go to work today and lose five customers and see if your boss sacks you.

Time isn't the answer to everything. You earn it. Crowds don't demand instant success. They demand progress. If they see their club going backwards, selling their best players, scoring less goals, winning fewer matches then their is no reason to provide their support.

You're right - giving a manager more time was what your original post was about. But you made it, you confessed later, without knowing the finer details of what went on during Sam's regime.

If last night proved anything - without the vast bulk of Allardyce's players (missing were Geremi, Smith, Beye, Barton, Faye) and without his daft systems and with players who were motivated we beat Stoke 4-1 with 10 men. Two weeks ago, under Sam, we couldn't score against them with 11.

If you want to decide that your club is average that's fine. If you want say that you'll be happy in midtable obscurity until the end of time - fabulous.

We'll continue to dream a little at the Toon and that is why Keegan has been welcomed and that is why he is a great manager. He motivates people - tells them what they could achieve. He would never, in a million years, believe that nil-nil at Stoke was a good result. (Sam was doing high fives aferwards).

So don't tell me, or us, what we should accept without knowing what we have actually watched and suffered. You're talking about broad examples without knowing a small percentage of the specifics.

Don't tell me that we should give a manager time when by his own admission the best he'll bring us is flirting with a UEFA place and mind numbing football.

Keegan will get time. He has earnt it already.

I'll be back when you write your first "Curbishley Out" piece.

[Simon]

So, Nigel Pearson is the managerial genius to take you forward then is he? After all, Keegan did not pick the side last night.

Yes, I am happy to be average for this season, having survived by the skin our teeth last season, average suits me just fine for now. The West Ham board have set out a vision for a 5 year plan for us to get in the Champions League, so no, we don't dream, we are just realistic. Such an achievement will not be reached by a merry go round of managers seeking to please an impatient crowd.

Next season I will expect more, the season after that even better, what I won't demand is Champions League football from a team that is still being assembled.

I don't doubt you are going to win your next few games, new managers have that effect, but let's see what happens when King Kev entertains you 5-4 defeats every week, we'll see how quickly patience runs out then....

[ourman]

Obviously you know best. But you don't finish second in the league losing 5-4 every week. I am suprised you didn't work that one out yourself.

As for:

"So, Nigel Pearson is the managerial genius to take you forward then is he? After all, Keegan did not pick the side last night."

"I don't doubt you are going to win your next few games, new managers have that effect"

Why did we win? Was is Pearson? I think you answered that.

As for him picking the team. We had 12 available senior players and he picked 11 of them. One of those got sent off.

But you didn't know that, did you. Once again you're just parading your ignorance about my club. Bored now.

[Simon]

Well, Keegan did not take the team talk or enter the dressing room until after the game, so are you not giving him any credit then? He surely picked the formation, positions, responsibilities, substitutions etc? I could pick 11 players to play for Man Utd, does not mean they will win if I put Rooney at centre half....

Oh, and I note that Keegan has asked for 'patience', tell me, how much patience will the barcode fans give him....?

[ourman]

*Shakes head, in take of breath etc...

Here goes..

You're right - tactical genius Nigel Pearson played the correct 11 of the 12 fit players available to him.

He cleverly played the wingers on the wings. The strikers up front. The centre halves in the middle of defence and the full backs at their sides.

His real stroke of genius was getting the team to play attacking football despite being at home to a lower league side in a knock out game. Honestly I'd have played for penalties but then again I am not a pro.

Late on in the game when Newcastle were out of sight of Stoke he breathtakingly made the incredible choice, of playing his 12th fit senior player before giving a quick run out to a couple of juniors.

Nigel Pearson management genius.

If you really think that given a managerial opportunity you might play Rooney at centre half then I'd question your ability to write a football website. But I guess I am doing that already.

How long will Keegan get? Well last time he was with us five years. At the end of that he chose to leave us we didn't sack him.

West Ham managers, since John Lyall who have lasted five years: one out of six. Dear old Harry - he was sacked when you were in 15th place.

Curbishley has been there a year - arguably a little too early for you to start being smug about "giving manager's time".

Perhaps you should have given Pardew, Roeder, Bonds and Macari more time.

[Simon]

Of the 4 managers you cite, only two had any previous sucess with any club (Macari/Pards) and only one did anything of note afterwards (Pards) so these decisions were proven correct.

My point re Pearson is that your new dawn/Premier league title assault appears to have started even before Keegan has entered the dressing room, it simply illustrates the over-excitement of the fans coupled with the burden of expectation that will sit on Keegan's shoulders.

So will you be sacking Keegan as soon as he fails to win you a Champions League place just like you did with Bobby Robson?

Sorry mate, but you are just reminding me too much of Spurs fan who can only talk about what they should be winning rather than what they actually have. An old division 1 title being the exception. You are not Man Utd, Arsenal, Chelsea or Liverpool, your place right now is outside of that sphere. Yes, you should aim for it but again going back to my original point, I doubt the fans have the patience to see a long term vision through, you certainly did not let Allardyce and let's face it, Keegan is already probably 6 games from the sack and he hasn't even started yet....

[ourman]

Again absolutely clueless:

Robson did a fine job but was dismissed aged 71 after five years due to a number of reasons - mostly because he was simply unable to physically and mentally do the job and the whole club was suffering.

At that time the likes of Bramble, Bellamy and Dyer were running riot. The lovely Kieron Dyer refused to play in certain areas of the field and was a regular in the News of the World.

Reports have stated that the little shitbags regularly flicked the Vs behind his head and imitated him to his face. Bellamy had a fight with our coach, throwing chairs at him in front of stunned holiday makers at Newcastle airport as they prepared for a European game.

We had had two lots of very nasty rape allegations against first team members. He simply could not control them.

His transfer decisions became increasingly bizarre, as an example, Nolberto Solano was sold to Villa for a piffling one million and replaced by the very average Darren Ambrose.

Perhaps you think we should have given Robson more time? Perhaps now aged 75, you think he should still be in the post? Do you really think he would have been asked to leave if he was a 40 year old man? The tragedy of his reign was that we didn't get him to manage us as a younger man.

Since he left us he has suffered from a serious brain-related ailment and a reocurrence of his cancer. Perhaps you think he could have continued to turn up to training in that situation?

Sir Bobby is and was much loved at Newcastle. He was made a freeman after he left. His recent recognition on the BBC Sports Personality thing was as a result of a Newcastle based campain that demanded recognition for the work he has done in the game.

His sacking was only because he was so in love with the club that he refused to retire as he should have done (he didn't have a contract as such just a year one year rolling one - so it would never have run out)

You could even argue that the termination of his contract saved his life. I have no doubts otherwise that he would have died in the post.

He deserves his retirement. I hope he enjoys it.

To move on: managers that we have sacked who have gone on to success AFTER Keegan: (from: Dalglish, Gullitt, Robson, Sounness, Roeder) NONE. Absolute zilch, by your definition that means it WAS correct to sack each one of them.

Honestly you don't know what you are talking about. Go and write about West Ham.

[Simon]

Well, thanks for your emotive words about Robson, a top man indeed but does not detract from so many things. Can you tell me how long those managers were in their job for? I don't think any of them can be more than 2 seasons, why do you think that is? It's like the woman who complains that all the men she chooses are mean to her, ever thought it might be something about you and not them?

[ourman]

Oh give it up. Every time you make another accusation about Newcastle you realise just how little you know and you move on to another point.

Just give up.

[Simon]

Perhaps it's because you won't address any of the points I make?! Anyway, I'm sure you will celebrate a home win against Bolton like it's the FA Cup on Saturday, let's see how you are doing in a couple of months. For now I think this argument has run its course and I am closing the comments. Thanks for coming :)